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Author Topic: Wither Life Expectancy  (Read 3294 times)

Bob Niland (Boundless)

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Wither Life Expectancy
« on: July 04, 2013, 08:29:52 AM »
Brian on WBB raised this question:
"...you brought up a suggested age [40] for our paleo ancestors and this is something Iím constantly confronted with when I preach the wheat belly way."

Actually, I suspect that the whole population statistical number was more like 30 due to infant mortality. I use 40 as the figure for those who survived childhood.

"... I come up with 50 years as a probable lifespan."

That was probably not uncommon, but I doubt it was average for those who otherwise made it to reproductive age.

Modern life expectancy (LE) has reportedly peaked for the current consensus diet (full-time glycemic), at around 75 years.

What effect will primal, paleo, low carb, very low carb or keto diets have on LE?

I doubt we really know, but it's a fascinating question. I'm not doing low-carb grain-free for LE benefit. My guess is that the LE number will rise, but not higher than the longest-living humans get today, but we'll be very healthy until near expiration.

Chatter in the food wank communities is quite varied on this. Blather in the regular news channels is entirely random, and usually confounded by "low carb high protein", failing to control for specific toxins (wheat, fructose) or simply not being that low in carb to begin with. I was amused, on checking the Life Extension Foundation's web site, that they apparently are no longer making specific LE conjectures at all anymore, and they appear to be just selling the trendiest supplements of the moment.

Whatever the new LE number, it's apt to be different for humans conceived and raised LC vs. those of us who came late to the party.

But yes, this LE dissonance between modern paleo diet advocacy and the paleo fossil record is something that needs confronting; for example, the recent discovery of a Neanderthal rib with bone cancer. None of the reports have data on what the tribe's diet was, or the status of this individual. Whatever this Nean was munching, it obviously wasn't protective against cancer.

To spin something I said before, a short paleo life span was likely less due to what they ate than what they didnít. In addition to malnutrition, they got to die of exposure, injuries, infections, predation and intra- and inter-tribal violence. Apart from tribal violence (now promoted to national scales), these hazards are largely under control today.

For post-paleo humans, cyclical summer carb gorging/deep winter keto probably did have health consequences for the few individuals that managed to survive past 40. Such elders might have been revered by their tribes, and given preferential access to any winter stores of berries, dried fruits and syrups, thus assuring that they wouldnít be elders much longer.

We moderns get to die of things pre- and post-paleo people were never even aware of Ė almost all complications of a full-time excessively glycemic metabolism aggravated by two particularly pernicious ingredients: wheat and fructose. Virtually all of the resulting ailments are ramping up out of control at the moment. Only those awakened to the problem have a chance at escaping the trends. For those who jump off the trend lines, the effect on LE remains to be seen.

HungryinTN

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2013, 10:37:55 AM »
I have never been particularly concerned with whether or not our paleo ancestors ate this way or that, and certainly there were a large variety of factors that made their lives (and deaths) different from ours.  I think that the more important point about this lifestyle is what it does for us now, and that research is still being done (with all of us as the lab rats!).  Are we likely to suddenly live to see 200?  No.  Can we avoid absolutely all diseases by eating a whole foods diet?  Doubtful.  Can we make our day to day lives better, and put off the inevitable human decline by using better fuel for our bodies and avoiding known toxins?  I absolutely believe so. 

Bob Niland (Boundless)

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The Life Expectancy Objection
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2013, 11:12:23 AM »
> I have never been particularly concerned with whether or not our
> paleo ancestors ate this way or that ...


Perhaps the only important thing about ancestral diets is they what we are most likely adapted to. They weren't necessarily ideal (assuming we can even agree on what ideal means). What's true about the modern supermarket is that most of what's in it are consumables that didn't even exist a mere century ago. We are clearly not adapted to most of it.

> I think that the more important point about this lifestyle is what it
> does for us now, and that research is still being done
> (with all of us as the lab rats!).


And the rest of the population are the lab rats for the consensus diet. Want to see the long term food safety test results for semi-dwarf hybrid wheat? Big Grain hasn't published any, so see any Type 2 diabetes trend chart.

> Can we make our day to day lives better, and put off the inevitable
> human decline by using better fuel for our bodies and avoiding
> known toxins?  I absolutely believe so.


I daresay that the majority of people on LC diets are doing so for exactly that reason (and the rest to manage specific ailments) and almost none because of conjectured life extension.

But you will encounter people who resist the suggestion of changing their diet, and because they don't want low carb and/or grain-free to be true, they will toss out the LE objection, which I consider to be an interesting open issue, but not a material factor in diet choice.

In searching around today, I got numerous hits on articles claiming that lifespan is shorter on low carb. Several of these looked like they were using prose crafted by Big Grain, with wishful thinking ("low carb fad has peaked"), confounded data (high protein and/or low fat), fatally flawed assumptions and flat out falsehoods (brain must have glucose, etc.)

HungryinTN

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2013, 03:11:48 PM »

In searching around today, I got numerous hits on articles claiming that lifespan is shorter on low carb. Several of these looked like they were using prose crafted by Big Grain, with wishful thinking ("low carb fad has peaked"), confounded data (high protein and/or low fat), fatally flawed assumptions and flat out falsehoods (brain must have glucose, etc.)

I'm guessing, too, that with the sort of non-specificness of some of the older LC diets like Atkins, people weren't eliminating most of the toxic stuff that WB, Paleo, and other more recent whole foods-centered approaches do a much better job of.  I remember seeing Atkins dieters during its resurgence in popularity about fifteen years ago.  They were eating tons of fried and processed foods, but as long as it was "low carb" it was okay.  Plus without complete elimination of the wheat toxin, I think that gluten "glue" just keeps poisoning the body, making the LC lifestyle unsustainable because of the constant cravings and desire to carb-up.  Eating regular supermarket meat and limiting carbs without eliminating the poisons just can't work in the long term, I think.  There are too many obstacles to proper nutrition. 


Mainly, knowing the long list of potentially wheat-related ailments that I faced in my not-to-distant future based on my parents and grandparents (Type 2 diabetes, hypertension, high cholesterol, Alzheimers, pancreatic cancer, and RA, to name a few), I firmly believe that I have increased my chances of living to see 90 many-fold.  It also makes me wonder what the end of my late grandfather's 95 years would have been like if he had known about the poisonous wheat.  Maybe he would have even still been with us for a few more, instead of succumbing to prostate cancer and heart failure. 
« Last Edit: July 04, 2013, 09:51:56 PM by Rita »

Jan in Key West

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2013, 09:42:23 AM »
Modern life expectancy (LE) has reportedly peaked for the current consensus diet (full-time glycemic), at around 75 years.


But at what a cost.....it may take a laundry list of pharmaceuticals to get (the full time glycemics) even to that point. My own mother, who died at 92, spent the last ten years of her life in a medical nightmare and died in a very debilitated body as a result......she was a champion of whole wheat for years, even before it was popular.....she took two spoonfuls of wheat germ every day for most of her life and that no doubt, was directly (or indirectly) responsible for most of her maladies later on. How many people do we know, over the age of 60, who are NOT on meds?

What effect will primal, paleo, low carb, very low carb or keto diets have on LE?

I doubt we really know, but it's a fascinating question. I'm not doing low-carb grain-free for LE benefit. My guess is that the LE number will rise, but not higher than the longest-living humans get today, but we'll be very healthy until near expiration.

Yes, it is a fascinating question and I'm not doing VLCBK to lengthen my life either, but rather to be  in a standing position when I take my off-ramp to the next world.....to remain healthy as long as possible. AND I have an aversion to the visual of being in an old folks home and needing my sons to pluck my chin hairs!  ;)


We're in uncharted waters.....but I'm rather liking my boat!




bcflyfisher

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #5 on: July 05, 2013, 10:13:14 AM »
We're in uncharted waters.....but I'm rather liking my boat!

That sure brightened my day, Jan!

The possibility of increasing one's life expectancy is appealing but only under desirable conditions.  Nobody wants an extra 5-10 years of suffering. 

The possibility of maintaining one's life expectancy with a significant improvement of quality of life for the final 10 years is extremely appealing! 

The possibility of both conditions happening simultaneously speaks for itself.

Linda R

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #6 on: July 05, 2013, 10:43:30 AM »

Yes, it is a fascinating question and I'm not doing VLCBK to lengthen my life either, but rather to be  in a standing position when I take my off-ramp to the next world.....to remain healthy as long as possible. AND I have an aversion to the visual of being in an old folks home and needing my sons to pluck my chin hairs!  ;)




My aversion?


Needing my daughter's assistance to change my adult diaper!


Gives me nightmares.................................

HungryinTN

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #7 on: July 05, 2013, 10:55:33 AM »

Yes, it is a fascinating question and I'm not doing VLCBK to lengthen my life either, but rather to be  in a standing position when I take my off-ramp to the next world.....to remain healthy as long as possible. AND I have an aversion to the visual of being in an old folks home and needing my sons to pluck my chin hairs!  ;)




My aversion?


Needing my daughter's assistance to change my adult diaper!


Gives me nightmares.................................

At least y'all have children!  All I can imagine is not being able to get out of my easy chair and the dozens of cats I'll likely have by then eating me alive!  Talk about motivation! 

Linda R

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #8 on: July 05, 2013, 11:04:18 AM »

Yes, it is a fascinating question and I'm not doing VLCBK to lengthen my life either, but rather to be  in a standing position when I take my off-ramp to the next world.....to remain healthy as long as possible. AND I have an aversion to the visual of being in an old folks home and needing my sons to pluck my chin hairs!  ;)




My aversion?


Needing my daughter's assistance to change my adult diaper!


Gives me nightmares.................................

At least y'all have children!  All I can imagine is not being able to get out of my easy chair and the dozens of cats I'll likely have by then eating me alive!  Talk about motivation!


Well, hopefully my two felines will wait till I'm actually dead!  LOL

Jan in Key West

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Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2013, 12:05:39 PM »
My boys weren't too keen on the idea either....they would rather I stick to my WB lifestyle!

Wheat Free Forum

Re: Wither Life Expectancy
« Reply #9 on: July 05, 2013, 12:05:39 PM »

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