Splenda

[deanna in AR]

Did y'all see this? Don't know if anyone uses Splenda or not. We don't use much sweetener...a bit of stevia occasionally, and Truvia in the WB cheesecake. That's usually it.


http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/06/26/cspi-downgrades-splenda.aspx

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

We quit using sucralose over a year ago, just on general suspicions.

We have noticed over the last couple of years that a lot of packaged treats that were using sucralose have now switched (in some cases back) to aspartame. Either the industry thinks people don't care (easily true) or they've been seeing smoke signals on the horizon regarding sucralose.

A family member had been using saccharin, specifically powdered Sweet'n'Low, until about 10 days ago. After decades of using it daily, some residual aches and pains finally vanished, overnight. We've tossed all of it. It's worth noting that SnL contains more than just sodium saccharin. The dextrose is supposedly corn-derived, and not from wheat, but there's an anti-caking agent as well.

So we're down to erythritol, xylitol, stevia and monk fruit extract for non-sugar sweeteners.

[Craigh71]

So we're down to erythritol, xylitol, stevia and monk fruit extract for non-sugar sweeteners

I decided to try Nutria ["all natural" you know].  Well, I'm new enough to thinking about how my body reacts to foods that when I started getting a racing heart, palpitations, and chest tightness, the sweetener never occurred to me as a possible culprit.  After about a week of growing worry, I went to the emergency room and was admitted overnight.  I passed a 4 hour stress test the next morning and was released.

It was only this week [a month later] that I read that, in some people, Nutria can cause those effects.  And it really ain't "all natural" to boot.  Back to Sweet 'N Low for my coffee.  Never had caused me any problems in the first place.  Live and learn -- the hard, expensive way.  Story of my life.

[jgilberAZ]

I saw something on "The Diet Doctor's" website today that made me think about giving up all artificial sweeteners.

He drank a Pepsi Max, and checked blood sugar and ketones for 7 hours.

As expected, blood sugar didn't change much at all.

But, ketones quickly dropped, taking him out of ketosis, and stayed there for several hours.

To one who is trying to eat a ketogenic diet (LCHF), that's significant.

It indicates to me that 'something' is responding to the sweetener in ways that are undesirable.

I eat a LCHF diet.  I don't check ketones, though.

I also drink a diet soda several times per week.

I thought I was in ketosis.  Now, I'm not sure.

It's likely going to drive me to avoid all sweeteners, artifical or not, low carb or not.

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

> I saw something on "The Diet Doctor's" website today that
> made me think about giving up all artificial sweeteners.

I'm guessing you mean this:
How to Lose Weight #8: Avoid Artificial Sweeteners

> He drank a Pepsi Max, and checked blood sugar and ketones for 7 hours.

Do we know where he drank that?
The sweetener used varies by country.

> As expected, blood sugar didn't change much at all.
> But, ketones quickly dropped, taking him out of ketosis, and stayed there for several hours.

And the first thing I thought of was just what he speculated, that the artificial sweetener provoked an insulin response.

Right now the gold standard for carb effect is blood sugar. I'm wondering if insulin response deserves equal billing.

I've said on WBB that I'm not sure that artificial sweeteners are fooling only the tongue. I've also asked if it's a problem if something provokes an insulin response, but doesn't raise blood sugar. So far, these are unanswered, possibly because nobody knows, or even that it doesn't matter.

> To one who is trying to eat a ketogenic diet (LCHF), that's significant.

Well, a keto diet will be LCHF but not all LCHF is keto. However, in most LCHF you will be in keto at least some of the time, unless you're not, and it sounds like a diet pop at bedtime could derail you.

> It indicates to me that 'something' is responding to the sweetener in ways that are undesirable.

Usually, it means that the liver is distracted with metabolizing something, like alcohol. I've also asked if sugar alcohols can do this, and haven't found an answer. This might point to an issue with even the WB-approved sweeteners. If they have an insulin effect and/or kick the liver out of keto, consumers need to know so they can decide what, if anything, to do about it.

> I eat a LCHF diet.  I don't check ketones, though.

You might want to just to verify that you are in keto, then again to see what the diet pop does.

> I also drink a diet soda several times per week.

What sweetener?

I only drink water, coffee, wine and more rarely, stevia lemonade or stevia margarita.
Of those, only the water has no material metabolic considerations.

[Djam]

I use xylitol regularly. I had no problem losing weight when I wanted to regardless of the amount I consumed  (but right now, I don't want to lose weight at all, I reached my ideal weight and losing more would make me look like a wraith ...).

Xylitol is a decent prebiotic, bacteria in the colon produce butyrate and other nice short-chain fatty acids. As I said recently in these forums, the GI of food is practically irrelevant for non diabetic people since it is an out-of-context measure that poorly translates into the GI of a real meal. What matters is the time of ingesting. The way I lost weight was by modifying my meal timing (no breakfast, no lunch, timing window ranging between 3 and 6 hours depending on the situation - home or out) and by cycling macros depending on my work-outs (which I do fasted). I have kept this loose approach and have been in maintenance mode for ages without any fat gain or loss (am around 12% BF at the moment, which I feel is great for man).

For the super low carb people who are NOT diabetic or pre-diabetic, you have to understand that you must keep a certain insulin sensitivity and I would suggest you eat according to the seasons: summer comes with lots of delicious fruits and there is no need to stay in ketosis unless you have a brain issue or cancer. Ketosis does not necessarily translates into fat loss anyway ...

[bill]

Djam said:


"...you have to understand that you must keep a certain insulin sensitivity and I would suggest you eat according to the seasons: summer comes with lots of delicious fruits and there is no need to stay in ketosis..."

Where would the citations for this edict be?

In posting such absolutes, there must be
very good references, no?

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

> ... suggest you eat according to the seasons: summer comes with lots of delicious fruits ...

This is what humans are adapted to do. Utilize the fructose in summer fruits to pack on fat for deep winter, when they could often expect involuntary keto, which kept them alive by burning it off. Humans lacking the two key genetic adaptions to do this are all now fossils.

This cyclic diet may or may not describe the paleo model, and may well not be ideal, because those paleos didn't get to live much past 40 years. What influence the cyclic diet had on ancestral lifespan is unclear. I am personally reluctant to experiment with a cyclic diet.

What we are aiming for today is an extended lifespan, and remaining slender, active, alert and generally healthy for as much of it as possible. This has never been done before other than by accident. What ideal diet supports this goal is also not yet clear. What is abundantly clear is that it is not the official full-time glycemic consensus diets (and probably doesn't include Splenda  ).

[Jan in Key West]

It stands to reason that if digestion begins in the mouth, and your tongue tastes 'sweet', whether it be-artificial or not, an insulin response would follow, even if it doesn't raise blood glucose levels. One of the important components of VLCBK is to refrain from promoting insulin responses. In my opinion, this is a good argument for reducing the use of all sweeteners.


A late glass of red wine (4 oz. w/guests) at 9 p.m......threw me out of ketosis the next day, 16 hours later.....it's a fragile condition. While I'm not currently combating a medical condition, my expectation is that periodically going in and out of ketosis may circumvent a potentially unwelcome malady in the future.

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

> I've said on WBB that I'm not sure that artificial sweeteners are
> fooling only the tongue. I've also asked if it's a problem if something
> provokes an insulin response, but doesn't raise blood sugar.

This is apparently not a problem. There may be a cephalic insulin response, but it's evidently deminimus, at least in the case of Xylitol. See:
TEA: What are the side effects of aspartame, stevia, and other sugar substitutes?

Dr. Attia was silent on any further metabolic effects, specifically on ketosis, but as he's a keto explorer and xylitol consumer, if it did knock the liver out of keto, I suspect he would have mentioned it.

One reader of that TEA blog article reported that Diet Coke was inhibiting ketosis, but he wasn't sure if it was due to the aspartame or the citric acid.

Another reader brought up Dr. Eenfeldt's experience with Pepsi Max knocking him out of ketosis. We don't know what sweetener that was (or what country, which would tell us). Dr. Attia speculates that it might be "cephalic insulin response or some other impact on hepatic glucose output".

Anyone doing serious keto will be measuring blood ketones, and can monitor any such effect for themselves.

And no, there aren't any home test kits for real-time insulin levels.

[HungryinTN]

I added stevia to my normal routine at one point a week or so ago and changed nothing else and I was out of ketosis within 24 hours, and I was hungry as hell for a couple of days, too.  I don't know the biomechanics of it, and I can't cite any articles to confirm it, but it happened.  I removed the stevia from my diet and have (barring the whole week-from-hell thing) been basically back to normal.  I actually find that a half a teaspoon of raw honey does the trick (just taking the edge off of a hot ACV drink) without any significant negative impact on my ketones or my hunger level.  I still have some Splenda in my spice drawer from way-back-when it was the hot new thing, but I haven't touched the stuff in ages. 

[Jan in Key West]

Trying to catch up on here....in the middle of a renovation project as well as trying to hone my paddle boarding skills to become 'ocean worthy' by next fall.....great exercise BTW!


Thanks Boundless, for the post above regarding Dr. Attia's testing experiences with artificial sweeteners....that's good to know, although he recommended not overdoing it. An ND I was talking with a few weeks ago mentioned that the proliferation of candida can be influenced by artificial sweeteners.....anyone know anything about this?


As far as sweeteners go....I bought a 2 oz. bottle of stevia in January and we've only used a third so apparently, we don't use much. On the other hand, I have several hummingbird feeding stations so still must buy large quantities of cane sugar to make my nectar.....they are not stevia-friendly!

[sweetguy]

sucralose is used as artificial sweetener like aspartame, acesulfame potassium

[Michael Beechey]

We quit using sucralose over a year ago, just on general suspicions.

We have noticed over the last couple of years that a lot of packaged treats that were using sucralose have now switched (in some cases back) to aspartame. Either the industry thinks people don't care (easily true) or they've been seeing smoke signals on the horizon regarding sucralose.

A family member had been using saccharin, specifically powdered Sweet'n'Low, until about 10 days ago. After decades of using it daily, some residual aches and pains finally vanished, overnight. We've tossed all of it. It's worth noting that SnL contains more than just sodium saccharin. The dextrose is supposedly corn-derived, and not from wheat, but there's an anti-caking agent as well.

So we're down to erythritol, xylitol, stevia and monk fruit extract for non-sugar sweeteners.

I think that xylitol is corn sugar...don't know how that relates to corn restrictive diets

[Barbara from New Jersey]

Michael,


The Ultimate Life brand carries xylitol made from birch (tree) sugar.  It is called The Ultimate Sweetener.  While expensive because the container is 1.75 lbs., it lasts a very long time.  This sells out quickly so if you see it, buy it!  I liked the taste and used this brand until I couldn't find it anywhere.
iherb.com carries it, but is currently out of stock.  Most of the other xylitol you find is made from corn products and I didn't like them at all.
The Ultimate sweetener was the best with no after taste and usable in hot tea or coffee and cold drinks. 


Remember that everyone reacts differently to the taste, so if you purchase some and don't like it, other family members might or even after a few months you might readjust to the taste. 

[sweetguy]

[/size]Sucralose is about 320 to 1,000 times as sweet as sucrose, twice as sweet as [/color][/size][/font]saccharin[/size], and three times as sweet as [/color][/size]aspartame[/size]. It is stable under heat and over a broad range of pH conditions. Therefore, it can be used in baking or in products that require a longer shelf life. The commercial success of sucralose-based products stems from its favorable comparison to other low-calorie sweeteners in terms of taste, stability, and safety. Approved by ESFA and FDA.[/color]
[/size] [/color]
[/size][/size]for more info about sucralose: [/size]http://www.yameiaspa...ucts/sucralose/

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

re: Sucralose … favorable comparison to other low-calorie sweeteners in terms of taste, stability, and safety.

I'd like to see the long term safety studies for human microbiome (hint - they don't exist), and this is why I don't consume it.

But that's not the only suspicion. There's also an insulin/appetite effect that lately got some coverage, such as this on Diet Doctor, where I had further comments.

[bill]

I was under the impression sucralose was being
developed as an herbicide or pesticide when the
person was asked to "test" it.  Didn't see any
mention of that in the wiki article on it.

[Michael Beechey]

isn't xylitol made from corn=gm?

I use xylitol regularly. I had no problem losing weight when I wanted to regardless of the amount I consumed  (but right now, I don't want to lose weight at all, I reached my ideal weight and losing more would make me look like a wraith ...).

Xylitol is a decent prebiotic, bacteria in the colon produce butyrate and other nice short-chain fatty acids. As I said recently in these forums, the GI of food is practically irrelevant for non diabetic people since it is an out-of-context measure that poorly translates into the GI of a real meal. What matters is the time of ingesting. The way I lost weight was by modifying my meal timing (no breakfast, no lunch, timing window ranging between 3 and 6 hours depending on the situation - home or out) and by cycling macros depending on my work-outs (which I do fasted). I have kept this loose approach and have been in maintenance mode for ages without any fat gain or loss (am around 12% BF at the moment, which I feel is great for man).

For the super low carb people who are NOT diabetic or pre-diabetic, you have to understand that you must keep a certain insulin sensitivity and I would suggest you eat according to the seasons: summer comes with lots of delicious fruits and there is no need to stay in ketosis unless you have a brain issue or cancer. Ketosis does not necessarily translates into fat loss anyway ...

[Barbara from New Jersey]

Ultimate Life brand makes their xylitol from birch tree sap.  If you can find this brand, than buy it as it usually sells out immediately.  There are many other brands which use corn as their base which they never tell you.

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

re: isn't xylitol made from corn=gm?

By the time the corn is reduced to crystals of xylitol, my guess is no proteins, nor anything else with DNA, remain, at all, nor any field chemical residues. So although it's a worthy gesture to support producers who avoid conventional ag, it may not be strictly necessary for your health on sweeteners.

Ditto for real sugar. There's very likely no health difference between a gram of generic table sugar and a gram of "non-GMO organic evaporated cane juice". The flow agent and container materials are likely bigger concerns.

Spend your non-GMO organic dollar where it matters, such as on meats and veggies.

[Rita]

I would personally opt for stevia, as that is also a source of chromium.   I was going to grow some stevia in my garden this year, and completely forgot to plant it.

[Barbara from New Jersey]

Boundless,


Are you saying that using sugar is now thought to be OK?

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

re: Are you saying that using sugar is now thought to be OK?

It's always been OK, subject to net carb guidelines, which allow for so little of it that we have none in the house.

We do consume it as naturally occurring sugar in whole foods, and as added sugar in the form of high %cacao chocolate, again, subject to net carb targets.

Using choc as an example, the priorities for selecting a product might thus be:
☑ low lead
☑ low cadmium
☑ organic cacao
☑ no emulsifiers
with the source of the sucrose not being a big deal.

[Rita]

Using choc as an example, the priorities for selecting a product might thus be:☑ low lead☑ low cadmium☑ organic cacao☑ no emulsifierswith the source of the sucrose not being a big deal.

When you say 'no emulsifiers' are you referring to lecithin?   There are some health benefits to lecithin.

[Bob Niland (Boundless)]

re: When you say 'no emulsifiers' are you referring to lecithin?

Yep, and many thickeners are also emulsifiers (some that are not).

re: There are some health benefits to lecithin.

I prefer to avoid/minimize lecithins as a specific added ingredient.
___________
 Bob Niland [disclosures] [topics]