Author Topic: Bone broth? (Read 32074 times)

HungryinTN · « **on:** August 05, 2013, 12:22:39 PM »

So I keep hearing about all of the wonderful benefits of bone broth, and I've decided to give it a try. This will be my first venture into meat-based cooking in my whole life, so I need a little hand holding. So...what do I do? I am going to go to a local butcher tomorrow to see about getting bones (they are only open Tues-Sat), I don't know yet whether or not they have grass fed, but I don't know exactly how important that is with broth, and I mostly have NO IDEA what I'm doing. I mean seriously, I grew up in a meat-free household. I've never seen meat prepared. Talk to me like I'm a kindergartner. What should I ask for? Bones of what animal? What do I do to it when I've got it home? How much will how many bones make? I've read several recipes online but I feel like there is a certain amount of foreknowledge assumed by all of them, because I am great at recipes but I feel completely lost with the whole bone broth concept. Thanks all!

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2013, 04:59:14 PM »

Hungry.....Try to get pastured animal bones if at all possible. The 'bone broth purists' (whoever they are) recommend grass-fed/sustainable animal bones. I think probably everyone has their own system for making bone broth and I'm pretty new to this but will throw in my two cents for this very worthy cause.

I make beef bone broth using the largest representation from the animal.....from head to toe. It's typical to find 'soup bones' from most butchers....they are usually the larger bones and have been sawed into smaller portions.....so start there. Ask if they have anything else that you could use in making bone broth and they may surprise you with something interesting. I often add some organ meats....but only use those if the animal was pastured raised. Roast the bones with olive oil for an hour at 375-400.....put in your stockpot....cover with filtered water.....add 1/4 cup vinegar.....and simmer for 3 days. Some people add veggies but I don't do that anymore.....maybe an onion but that's it....just the bones. I've read that corn fed bones may produce a 'scum' that needs to be syphoned off....but I haven't had that experience with pasture raised/pasture finished beef. I've managed to develop a great relationship with my farmer (I'm blessed!) and he saves me lots of cool stuff....knuckles, joints, parts of the skull, hooves.......but I have yet to ask for the eyeballs (which are supposedly really high in Vit A)!

Chicken bone broth....I just use a carcass from a chicken I roasted, add some chicken feet (again, from my butcher) some organ things....and cook for 24 hours....a great gelatinous broth!

You can't make mistakes.....just try it.....and good luck! It's one of the best things I've done....other than ridding myself of wheat!

HungryinTN · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2013, 06:06:28 PM »

Yeah...I don't see myself going for any organs or eyeballs yet. But hopefully I can stomach some bones. Thanks!

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #3 on:** August 08, 2013, 03:04:58 PM »

FYI.....I wrote Sally Fallon at Weston Price in July inquiring about the use of a pressure cooker in making bone broth and whether they had any nutritional data regarding the differences. I just received an answer from her and while they do not have specific nutritional data, she does not recommend using a pressure cooker because bones (especially the cartilage) need a long slow simmer to extract it's benefits. So, I'm returning my pressure cooker.....

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #4 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:31:04 PM »

My induction burner arrived yesterday....boy that was fast! Roasting a 'Savoy' chicken for dinner tonight and will use the carcass, along with some roasted chicken feet....and simmer for 30 hours for chicken bone broth......

Rita · « **Reply #5 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:41:41 PM »

Quote

will use the carcass, along with some roasted chicken feet..

Jan... you're such a carnivore!

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #6 on:** August 10, 2013, 04:50:48 PM »

Rita....YES I AM! When I went to my farmer a week ago, his son said, "Dad, the bone lady is here". Think I should change my moniker?

Lynda (Fl) · « **Reply #7 on:** August 11, 2013, 02:53:13 PM »

That's too funny, Jan! You could be Jan, The Bone Lady in Key West?

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #8 on:** August 11, 2013, 03:52:53 PM »

Actually, I'm Jan, the bone lady from Indiana in the summer....but will be back down in the fall....then I'll have to IMPORT my bones....not too many pastured cows running around the island, just chickens!

HungryinTN · « **Reply #9 on:** August 11, 2013, 08:07:29 PM »

Well, I did it! I bought some grass-fed beef soup bones at the farmer's market yesterday and put them in the crockpot tonight with onions and a boatload of seasoning (garlic, thyme, cumin) plus some ACV. I got some advice from family members who told me to err on the side of overseasoned the first time since I won't be used to the flavor of meat (the very few times I have tried it or accidentally eaten it in my life, it honestly tasted like death to me). If nothing else, I can give it to my boyfriend to get him some extra nourishment while he struggles to make it to his next paycheck on the university's bizzarro pay schedule (he's an adjunct professor). I will post when I know how it turned out!

HungryinTN · « **Reply #10 on:** August 11, 2013, 08:16:18 PM »

(I hope I did it right!)

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #11 on:** August 12, 2013, 04:45:55 AM »

Hungry....Congrats on venturing down the bone broth lane! What I found was the end product really doesn't have a heavy meat taste, in fact, it's fairly mild. Look forward to hearing how it turns out!

p.s. Have you read Lierree Keith's book, "The Vegetarian Myth"?

HungryinTN · « **Reply #12 on:** August 12, 2013, 08:39:06 AM »

I haven't. I've read some academic reviews of it, and basically it doesn't sound like the small amount of good research in it can tell me anything I don't already know (she cites Wikipedia, for pete's sake!). I think it's good that the book is out there, and it could help some people get away from a destructive lifestyle, but I'm living out my own vegetarian myth. I've suspected for years that my vegetarian lifestyle was doing more harm than good and more and more research is coming out confirming that. That said, it is so deeply embedded in my identity that it isn't going to be easy to change. Plus despite evolution, my body hasn't ever had the chance to develop some of the enzymes necessary to digest meat efficiently because I have never really been exposed to it, even in the womb. When I've had small exposure incidents in my life, it's made me pretty sick. Baby steps!

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #13 on:** August 12, 2013, 02:13:12 PM »

Hungry,

There are many brands of animal based digestive enzymes for you to try. Start with eating/drinking the bone broth!
Perhaps some of your local health food stores have sample packs of the enzymes. You might inquire so that they can ask their supplier to send some. This way you can try different brands and formulas without spending a lot of $. I always see a basket of these samples at the privately owned shops, not the national chains. The shop owners are eager for your business and should be able to guide you through the maize. Worth a try!

The longer you are grain/sugar free, the easier it should be to adapt to eating meats.

HungryinTN · « **Reply #14 on:** August 12, 2013, 04:52:53 PM »

The owners of my only local are vegan and a little snobbish about it. I've asked them for products in the past but to no avail. I'm hoping by starting slowly with the bone broth, and having added more animal fats to my diet in general, I can skip the pill-taking step of enzyme building.

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #15 on:** August 12, 2013, 05:04:50 PM »

Hungry,

Lots of vegans are that way! Lean and mean. They don't realize how much business they push away because of their smug attitude.
Wishing you a smooth and uneventful transition.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #16 on:** August 12, 2013, 06:49:24 PM »

My local grocer in KW is vegan/vegetarian but was amenable to ordering me Applegate bacon, among other things. "Help Yourself"....google them in KW...great place! I gave them a copy of WB in May and when I return in Oct. am anxious to see if it made a difference....although they have really been tremendously supportive as I've held to my 'low carb' diet.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #17 on:** August 13, 2013, 07:53:41 AM »

Finishing up a 40 hour chicken bone broth....using the induction burner and 20 qt. stockpot...this may be my best attempt yet! The flavor is outstanding!

HungryinTN · « **Reply #18 on:** August 13, 2013, 07:58:15 AM »

I am going to cool and skim my broth tonight. So far it smells...meaty. I forgot how much I hated the smell of beef cooking. I had to ban my ex-husband from making it when I was in the house because it made me positively nauseated. We'll see how this goes...

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #19 on:** August 13, 2013, 10:06:04 AM »

Hi Jan,

The high quality ingredients and the slow simmer makes the difference. Amazing isn't it!

This is why Linda sought out the old crockpots which cooked from 140-165*F. Can't hardly find them now, so the induction burner is a good substitute.

Glad this worked out for you!.

HungryinTN · « **Reply #20 on:** August 13, 2013, 10:15:49 AM »

Quote from: Barbara from New Jersey on August 13, 2013, 10:06:04 AM

This is why Linda sought out the old crockpots which cooked from 140-165*F. Can't hardly find them now, so the induction burner is a good substitute.

Hmm...How old does a crockpot need to be to cook at the right temperature? I've had mine for about ten years.

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #21 on:** August 13, 2013, 10:44:07 AM »

I believe it is in the 165*-215*F cycle. Better than nothing if you can't adjust the temperature on your stove top to 150*F.
Or, if no one is home for a long period of time and you don't want to leave the broth cooking while you are away.

Perhaps Linda R. can give you a better guesstimate. The older ones are smaller and i believe the insert is not removable.

Linda R · « **Reply #22 on:** August 13, 2013, 03:19:03 PM »

Quote from: Barbara from New Jersey on August 13, 2013, 10:44:07 AM

I believe it is in the 165*-215*F cycle. Better than nothing if you can't adjust the temperature on your stove top to 150*F.
Or, if no one is home for a long period of time and you don't want to leave the broth cooking while you are away.

Perhaps Linda R. can give you a better guesstimate. The older ones are smaller and i believe the insert is not removable.

I actually find the older models on ebay. I look for those like the 3 1/2 Qt or the 5 Qt. They sold back in the 70's, 80's and 90's and generally have just a simple High, Low and Off setting. No other fancy stuff, no programmable settings, etc. Even the Warm setting is generally newer. Some have removable stoneware inserts, some don't.
If you go there, ask as many questions of the seller as possible and inquire as to the age of the appliance. It is amazing how many are still available and how lovingly they have been kept all these years. A lot of them come from estate sales.

Linda R · « **Reply #23 on:** August 13, 2013, 03:29:31 PM »

Example

This is a Rival CrockPot Model 3100, 3 1/2 Qt. I am biased and always look for Rival, I think they are the best.

The 2nd one is on sale right now for $7.95, plus shipping. Sorry about the crappy photo.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #24 on:** August 13, 2013, 04:31:37 PM »

Crock pots, old or new, won't work for me because I make large quantities and need at least a 20 qt. capacity.....a turkey roaster would work but I really liked using the induction burner and didn't mind leaving it on when I left the house for extended periods.

I bought an immersion blender today on Amazon....it's got attachments so it may render my Ninja obsolete. It's scary how easy it is to spend money with only one click of the keyboard!!!!!

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #25 on:** August 13, 2013, 06:01:44 PM »

Jan,

You are a bit late to the internet shopping party! People even use their cell phones or iPads to price shop a specific item while walking through a store. They then go to the manager and show the price to get a match +10% off.
Usually they get the discount.

I try to research as much as possible on the internet to locate products or even read the labels for WB acceptable items. If necessary, I email the company. Usual response time is within 24 hours.

This is not Home Shopping Club anymore! No need to sit in front of the TV for hours. You can order nearly anything and have it delivered to your front door, all by filling in the form and your credit card #. The only problem I have is sometimes I don't really know what I want and have to see the item, like a lighting fixture.

HungryinTN · « **Reply #26 on:** August 13, 2013, 06:08:02 PM »

So I got home from work today and all of the liquid - which was nearly full when I left this morning - was mostly gone. Does this mean my "low" setting is too high, or that I can't leave it for eight hours while I'm at work? Also, should I be worried that it could have oxidized?

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #27 on:** August 13, 2013, 06:12:43 PM »

No, add more water. Cover the pot so it doesn't evaporate as much. Your broth is just condensed. Try to lower the temperature a bit so it is on a simmer, not a slow boil.

bill · « **Reply #28 on:** August 13, 2013, 11:17:32 PM »

Okay. I roasted a chicken for the first time.
Came out pretty tasty. Now I've put the bones
into a pot and filled it with water and have been
cooking it for about 2 hours.

Can I stop cooking it overnight and then resume
in the morning? I'd rather not leave a pot on the
stove cooking all night or when I'm at work.

Do you pour or skim off the fat before using?

I tried once before to make cow bone broth and it
tasted bad to me. I'd sure like to try one that
others are saying tastes good, to see what the
fuss is all about.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #29 on:** August 14, 2013, 04:13:16 AM »

Bill,
Remember to add some vinegar to the broth....it helps extract the nutrients from the bones. Using the bones from one chicken, I'd add at least a few tablespoons. Chicken bone broth requires, at the minimum, 24 hours of continuous low heat to leach.....beef bones require 72 hours. There are some 'bone broth enthusiasts that make a 'perpetual' broth that go on for weeks.

Since starting this process in May, I've experimented with several different methods....using a crock pot (low setting was too hot).....electric turkey roaster (it was old and died on me half-way through).....large stockpot on gas stove (worked well).....all these methods made me a little uneasy for the same reasons you stated, being asleep or away from home and leaving an appliance on. This week I used an induction burner (low setting) with a large stockpot and made a 2 day chicken bone broth that was outstanding....and it was much less intimidating to leave on for an extended period of time. The only other alternative is to use the oven on a low setting.....I haven't tried that one but many do.

When the broth is done, I turn off the heat and let it cool.....stick the whole pot in the fridge.....the fat hardens and I remove some of it....then I filter it through a fine wire mesh....and put it in glass jars to freeze.

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #30 on:** August 14, 2013, 04:47:50 AM »

Bill,

Chicken STOCK is cooked for a just a few hours. BONE BROTH needs to cook for at least 24 hours. The idea is to be able to simmer the bones and skin long enough to leech out the collagen and other nutrients from the bones. If you are uncomfortable leaving the pot cooking while away from the house or overnight, then try to do this for as long a time as possible.

Some people use veggies and spices to flavor the resulting broth. Some people don't until the broth is finished cooking.
Most strain the broth and remove the fat that settles on the top.

I will strain the broth multiple times if I want a clear soup or consommé. I will strain it only once if I am making any other kind of soup.

When cooking this on a stove top, and I had to leave, I would make sure all the windows were closed to prevent a breeze taking out your flame. The pot should be filled to the brim and covered so the contents don't evaporate while you are away or asleep. The key to successful bone broth is the apple cider vinegar and long slow simmering at 140-160*F. An electric cooktop should be on the lowest setting to bring the liquid to the right temperature.

You can check the temperature by holding any thermometer in the water until you get a reading to enable you to adjust the heat level. Also, when you are finished cooking the broth, you may want to raise the heat to bring it to a boil. Let it cool, remove the carcass, etc. then strain and refrigerate or freeze.

bill · « **Reply #31 on:** August 14, 2013, 12:17:08 PM »

So I cooled it off and put it into the fridge
overnight. Then started cooking it again this
morning. It's been cooking a total of 4 hours now
but I have to go to work.

Does it have any bone goodness in it yet? At
this rate, it'll take many days to get to 24
hours of cooking time.

Anybody know what the cost of the cooking
fuel is for this type of thing? 24 hours at x#
of $ per hour?

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #32 on:** August 14, 2013, 12:41:38 PM »

This is a low temp cooking. Whatever your fuel source is, it won't be a noticeable cost. I would venture to guess that the electric crockpot or induction burner is the least expensive. Like leaving a light bulb on. Propane would be the most expensive.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #33 on:** August 14, 2013, 02:28:30 PM »

Bill,
How do you feel about leaving your oven on low while you're asleep or away at work? That might be a solution....using a dutch oven, experiment with the temp controls and see what works, that is.... if you're more comfortable using the oven. I'm not sure what disrupting the cooking process does to the integrity of the broth, it might not have any consequence at all. Keep us posted.....I love bone broth stories and I don't think you can make mistakes!

HungryinTN · « **Reply #34 on:** August 14, 2013, 05:15:38 PM »

Okay...the broth is strained and in the refrigerator...now what? I don't think I can do anything with it tonight because the air hasn't been on in my apartment for a while and I live in the South (I share a unit with two other apartments and the downstairs apartment has control - way too hot to cook or eat hot broth, especially after an eleven hour day at work!). I strained it and refrigerated it last night. Will it keep in the fridge for a day or two till I can get something done about it?

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #35 on:** August 14, 2013, 06:21:54 PM »

Hungry....yes it will keep a day or so....but freeze it sooner, rather than later...use small containers if possible. Good luck!

bill · « **Reply #36 on:** August 15, 2013, 11:29:33 AM »

Okay, now it's been cooking for 9 hours.
I put it in the fridge every night. In about
3 more days, it'll be bone broth, Maybe.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #37 on:** August 15, 2013, 03:48:26 PM »

Bill,
Keep us posted on your broth journey....as long as you keep the broth cool between the times you're cooking it, and still do the 72 hours (or whatever your cooking goal), I really don't think there is a problem. But if you're concerned about the interrupted cooking, you might consider writing Sally Fallon at the Weston Price Foundation and ask her opinion.

bill · « **Reply #38 on:** August 16, 2013, 10:45:24 AM »

Technical difficulties. I can't work with it over
this weekend.

I guess I'll put it in the freezer.

It's now been cooking a total of 14 hours.

It needs 24 hours...really?

Barbara from New Jersey · « **Reply #39 on:** August 16, 2013, 02:30:35 PM »

I think the way to tell if the broth has bone nutrients in it is if the broth jells when refrigerated and if the chicken bones are soft enough to crush or break with your hand. The leached collagen is what makes it jell. This comes from chickens that are organically fed, antibiotic free, pastured, etc. Not much jell with store bought "factory" chickens.

HungryinTN · « **Reply #40 on:** August 16, 2013, 03:04:14 PM »

Hmm. I cooked my (allegedly) grass-fed, organically-raised cow bones for two and a half days and the broth didn't gel in the refrigerator...I have another batch of bones ready to go as soon as we eat all of the soup that I made from the broth. I haven't been brave enough to try it yet, but my boyfriend had it for lunch today and said it was delicious. I will probably have it for dinner.

HungryinTN · « **Reply #41 on:** August 16, 2013, 03:49:33 PM »

Update: The soup is amazing. I added just a little extra sea salt and sprinkled some Parmesan cheese on top and it doesn't taste like dead animal at all! Hooray!

bill · « **Reply #42 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:38:01 PM »

Barbara said:

broth jells when refrigerated and if the chicken bones
are soft enough to crush or break with your hand

Thanks for that. I'll check it out.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2013, 04:40:25 PM »

Hungry....great going on the bone broth!!!!!!!

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #44 on:** August 16, 2013, 05:06:08 PM »

Bill....it's usually a good idea to crack your bones beforehand, beef or chicken, as it helps expose the marrow....you can use a seafood utensil, or a hammer, or even a pair of pliers....and if it's cooked long enough, it will gel. I don't think you can make mistakes with bone broth.....even if not cooked for extended periods.....it's still good stuff!

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #45 on:** August 16, 2013, 05:16:06 PM »

Hungry.....maybe think of it this way.....that animal ate something you COULD NOT EAT and turned it into something that you COULD.....it's a viable & working ecosystem! It's all about our thankfulness.....

HungryinTN · « **Reply #46 on:** August 16, 2013, 06:56:18 PM »

Oh I completely agree. My entire thinking about diet and our role in the ecosystem has done a complete 180 recently. Back when my mother became a vegetarian, her meat options were really pretty limited. But the meat industry was, and is, something worth protesting. But I feel confident giving my money to local farmers who know the value of well-raised livestock. My new lifestyle aligns with my personal value system much better than my old diet did in so many ways. I create so little garbage now. My food doesn't have to travel long distances on fuel-guzzling eighteen-wheelers. I'm not giving my money to big ag or big industry, or to the legislators who have been bought by them. By eating the way that I do, I get to vote against the things that I find repugnant in the most powerful way possible - with my wallet.

Jan in Key West · « **Reply #47 on:** August 16, 2013, 07:08:37 PM »

Hungry....very well stated....it's all about our 'gratefullness'.....and that we are....

Linda R · « **Reply #48 on:** August 16, 2013, 08:07:19 PM »

Quote from: HungryinTN on August 16, 2013, 06:56:18 PM

Oh I completely agree. My entire thinking about diet and our role in the ecosystem has done a complete 180 recently. Back when my mother became a vegetarian, her meat options were really pretty limited. But the meat industry was, and is, something worth protesting. But I feel confident giving my money to local farmers who know the value of well-raised livestock. My new lifestyle aligns with my personal value system much better than my old diet did in so many ways. I create so little garbage now. My food doesn't have to travel long distances on fuel-guzzling eighteen-wheelers. I'm not giving my money to big ag or big industry, or to the legislators who have been bought by them. By eating the way that I do, I get to vote against the things that I find repugnant in the most powerful way possible - with my wallet.

Best comment I have read all week!

bill · « **Reply #49 on:** August 19, 2013, 12:54:46 PM »

Haven't been able to access the WFF for
the past couple of days. Kept getting an
error message. Anybody else have the
same problem? I don't see any posts from
August 17th or 18th and today's the 19th.

Update on my bone broth. It's still in the
freezer. I'll get to it in the next few days.

Wheat Free Forum · « **Reply #49 on:** August 19, 2013, 12:54:46 PM »

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Author Topic: Bone broth? (Read 32074 times)

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

Linda R

Linda R

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

HungryinTN

Linda R

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